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Gator Bite
07-02-2011, 03:48 PM
http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5600What would you do with a Cayman R . . ?

Porsche has generously provided the Porsche Club of America with a 2012 Cayman R for evaluation. As the official "Cayman Guy" I found myself in the fortunate position to call dibs on the keys... :smile:

This car has some pretty interesting options, and it does NOT have Air Conditioning.... It's been 85 degrees here since I picked it up and the unusual choice in climate control has not prevented me from driving it. I've already logged 600 miles and burned two tanks of fuel.

Porsche would like me to drive this car for a week, to experience it in every day use, to shake and bake it and share my experience with you and all of our fellow PCA members. So let me ask you this. If you had a Cayman R for a week, what would you do with it?

Before you say "take it to the track..!", please keep in mind that I promised not to. There are plenty of journalists flogging these poor press cars on track. My testing will all be done on the street. I may take it to work for a couple of days, and I am also planning a couple of nice scenic rides through my favorite Connecticut twisties during this three day weekend. I've got this baby for 7 days. If there is something you'd like to know about it, ask away and I'll see what I can do.

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5597

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5598

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5594

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5596

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5595

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5593

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5592

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5590

This car is incredibly fun....!!! As a Cayman owner, I didn't expect to find it so hard to put the keys down. But I just can't help it....!!!

JSF101
07-02-2011, 04:13 PM
looks great

can I get door pulls in Speed Yellow?

will the Cayman R exhaust fit on a Gen1/2 Cayman? bolt on? i.e. increase of 10hp by adding modded exhaust system

will have to think of some more
would really like an apples to apples of Cayman S vs Cayman R on track, same driver, same tires, etc

PistolPete
07-02-2011, 04:15 PM
Compare it to a 2011 GT3 back to back?? I know where to get you one... :wink:

Retired-Teach
07-02-2011, 04:19 PM
Compare it to a 2011 GT3 back to back?? I know where to get you one... :wink:

Wise guy. I thought you'd trade it in for a GT3:wink::wink:

PistolPete
07-02-2011, 04:24 PM
What's another $50K between friends?

Gator Bite
07-02-2011, 04:32 PM
OK, 2 days and 600 miles down and I've already washed her once....

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=5591

There's no better way to bond with a new car than to wash it....

I've already noticed that the PCCB brakes make a lot less dust than the steel brakes, and that dust is lighter in color. The 19" wheels are a Little trickier to wash than my Cayman S 18's, but not terrible. You'll want some for the long Griots wheel cleaning sticks.

Speaking of PCCB, oh man. These brakes provide incredible stopping power. The pedal is way more confidence inspiring and provides really easy to modulate braking force. I didn't expect to feel a difference, but you really can. When you jump on these brakes, they grip real hard and the modulation is so linear. I've read folks complaining about PCCB pedal firmness, I'm not seeing it. The pedal feels great (on the street). Oh, and these brakes smell really interesting after you use them hard.

The Cayman R is razor sharp. From the second you drop your butt into the Sport Bucket seats and your hands meet the thick rimmed sport steering wheel, you're reminded that this car was not built for comfort. That doesn't mean it's not comfortable. It really is. I was very curious how the stiffer suspension and sport bucket seats would feel after prolonged driving. During my first two days in the car, I literally spent 18 hours in them.

I picked the R up in New Jersey and drove it home over many streets that were far from ideal. The suspension on the R is very tight, and she's wearing very low profile 19 inch wheels. Yet somehow the car is NOT uncomfortable over rough pavement. Porsche has figured out how to tune the suspension to make a car stiff without making it harsh. It's really quite remarkable. Don't misunderstand, when you hit a bump you know it. The car delivers a single solid subsonic tremor as if it were a dinosaur in Jurassic park slamming its foot down on the pavement. But the car doesn't protest this. There are no squeaks, no rattles, no unusual sounds that would make you think that you just damaged the car. I've found myself looking for the smooth line ahead around man hole covers and potholes, but it's not the end of the world if you run one over.

The PDK is really very different. This is the aspect of the car that I've found most interesting, and believe it or not, it's not something that you can just use perfectly without practice. You need to learn it to derive maximum enjoyment from it. I find myself using manual mode 85% of the time. But yesterday I took the car to Rhode Island on a business trip and just popped it into automatic mode and set the cruise control for a while. It was really nice to be able to just forget about shifting.

I have much more to write, but I need to collect my thoughts first. I will log many more miles over the remainder of the holiday weekend, and I hope to hear from members on how I can use this car to satisfy their curiosity.

I'll report back soon,

Mike

Ed Merry
07-02-2011, 04:42 PM
What to do? I think a long road trip would be nice and tell me how you do with the Sport Bucket seats. I chose the regular Sport Seats for my CR. But then I am 65 years old and may need them.

And at some point, get a friend to ride with you as a timer and use "Launch Control". It took several tries for me to do it right but I have seen 4.97 sec, 0-60 with two old fat folks in the car, plus our junk.

Since you can't track it, Cayman S vs Cayman R comparisons will be hard. True the CR is slightly better in lots of small ways which add up, but even quickly on lightly traveled twisty roads, you probably will not stress either car enough to see much difference.

Comparing my Gen 1 CS to the CR, I found lots of small improvements. Better looking control switches, "softer" plastic with a bit of feel in the interior, larger front brake ducts in the facia by the radiators, connection for my i-pod in the center console. On the road, the CR seems to turn in more crisply and more eagerly, the LSD helps in switchbacks on twisty roads. The car feels much more "peppy" especially in the mid range. And with PDK, I see 30+ MPG on the interstate.

My only gripe is that PDK almost always quickly upshifts to 7th gear. So I sometimes use "Sport" mode or the paddles to keep it in a lower gear, especially on long hills.

ALthough I was sad to sell the Black Pearl (Gen 1 CS) , I am now satisfied with the BLue Streak. Wonderful car.

As I have found with my Aqua Blue Metallic CR, expect to see a lot of smiles, folks on the interstate slowing down to take your picture, people coming up to you at gas stations to talk and such.

I hope these comments help. Drive safe and enjoy probably one of the best handling cars ever made. Maybe even the best. Ed

DaveD
07-02-2011, 04:43 PM
Mike,
One of the things I would do with a cayman R is take a look at mechanical stuff and see what they did differently. For example, is brake cooling any different? Any signs of ducts for the rear brakes? Might be a good source of parts rather than adapting 996/997 items.

You probably should wait for the driveway to dry off before you take a look...

Have fun! Glad all the work you put into the register has some perks.

Dave

FTS
07-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Superb present and opportunity. Enjoy it Mike, not that I have to tell you that :D

Also, if you can find an autox, that would not be "tracking" ;)

desertdrew
07-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Mike,

My question causes the question to delta into a general value equation. Since I am one of those guys looking to get "more" of everything at the best value, my question is:

Does the incremental cost of the R present a great value for the improved performance versus buying a used version and doing the mods to get the same or more horses, torque, handling?

Living in AZ and it being 119 today, I can tell you an "everyday" car without AC is not a choice so AC is an add or this is a track only car.

So lets take a used S with PDK, install new aftermarket: exhaust, intake, improved lower end on the motor (what Greg is doing and I will be doing proactively shortly), intake, PSS9 or other suspension, sway bars, camber plates and a bigger brake kit and two racing seats and belts- so you are looking at 15-20k if you do most of your own work and get opportunistic buys. A quick scan shows 2009 S at $50k or less. Then you strip it down to 2900 or so pounds from 3200. That will be one bad *** racer that you could drive everyday if you wanted to (with AC in my case).

So, with that criteria, is it a good value or not? I realize it is only your opinion and based upon the bias' you have openly expressed in the past (not criticizing) that if it is a close call you'll go with the R, BUT I really value your opinion, advice and acumen concerning the car and the marque. So what be It?

Speedy
07-02-2011, 04:59 PM
The included pictures are great, but let's get Pete to take about a gazillion pix as well.

Then, we figure out how to swap those sport buckets for my sport seats (I REALLY want some sport buckets!) and I'm good to go...

I think your idea of some scenic drives is fantastic - that's what I'd do - so would it be possible to do some immediate back-to-back drives between your CS and the R on the same roads? Your impressions of the similarities and differences would be very worthwhile, IMO.

Would it be possible, and within the limits of your "borrow" to put the R on a dyno - again back-to-back with your CS? Just another thought...

BGLeduc
07-02-2011, 05:24 PM
Technically speaking, the Parade AX will not be on a race track.:wink:

Brian

Gator Bite
07-02-2011, 05:29 PM
Lots of great suggestions, comments, questions, etc.... Keep em coming and when I get a chance I will compile one big reply. I've already spent considerable time in this car, and Ed is right. Lots of small improvements that wrap up into a simply incredible package. But I couldn't see owning one without A/C.

mjbresolin
07-02-2011, 05:41 PM
Can you say more about your experience with the PDK, both in manual and auto mode? What have you learned about using it?

beez
07-02-2011, 05:54 PM
Technically speaking, the Parade AX will not be on a race track.:wink:

Brian

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it has to go back to Porsche before Parade.... otherwise, I'd be running in Showroom Stock, if you get my drift...

jwdbox
07-02-2011, 06:08 PM
Interested in hearing more about your experience with the PDK. In my driving I found the PDK sport mode to be pleasant enough [on the Permagrin scale :cool2:] that I might consider it instead of a manual (when I get really old...or plan on a lot of driving in traffic or big cities) but I did not find the regular mode one I would ever want to use. Looking forward to more of your experiences. As others have stated, I wouldn't want it without AC here in Vegas.

Jim Michaels
07-02-2011, 06:12 PM
How well PDK operates still seems to be of general interest. Ed Merry mentioned that his seems to shift up to 7th fairly quickly (a bit too early?) in normal mode. Does the Gator Bite R do the same? Are there any driving situations where PDK might be "caught out"; that is, not make what an experienced driver might consider the better choice of gearing? Normal and sport modes are mapped differently, but what are the implications of these differences for the driver? For example, would sport mode be as appropriate for spirited road driving as for the track?

SMLCAYMAN
07-02-2011, 06:33 PM
Gatorbite...please, no commercials! Why did I get an e-mail invitation?

doesn't this "violae the rules"?

smlcayman

Phil 1
07-02-2011, 06:41 PM
All I can say is that blue with silver might be the most beautiful Cayman I've ever seen. Enjoy...

SplitS
07-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Hi Mike,

I'd be really curious how the "R" compares to a Gen 2 "S". I'm slightly less interested in the differences between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars, or the specific options you can get on either. What are the items unique to the "R"?

Also, assuming the car is not a dedicated track car, but rather a street car used for occasional track days, which car makes more sense? Is it better to buy an "S" and add the more sport oriented options as compared to buying an "R" and adding A/C and a stereo? What is it like to live with the "R" on nasty northeast roads and traffic? I suspect price might make one of these a clear winner over the other, but I'm not sure.

Have fun :-)

Regards,
Tom

JSF101
07-02-2011, 06:53 PM
smlcayman,

not to get off topic but I will
email is invaluable and Gator Bite has specifically used it at my request to draw attention to specific Zone 5 topics

you're being "solicited" for inputs/opinions, isn't that why you're a member of this forum?

cheers,
Steve

Why did I get an e-mail invitation?

bretster
07-02-2011, 07:47 PM
I'd do about 500 launch control starts if I had this car for a week. How is the launch control?

Rod
07-02-2011, 07:48 PM
Its good to be the Gator Bite:cool2:. Is the 918 Spyder Advocate job open?

Here is what I want to know:

1) Are the tether door pulls an annoyance or are they really functional?
2) After its all done would you tick the $8k box for the PCCBs?
3) Where are the power sockets?
4) Would you go PDK on your next Cayman?
5) Does the Sport Chrono combo you have give you any data you can use for the track?
6) Do the current crop of harness bars fit the R or is there an R version?
7) Any guages the Gen 1 or 2 does not have?
8) Does the fixed spoiler get in way of the usability of the rear luggage space?
9) Is the tow hook socket the same?
10) Is there any reason you could not go with 18s on it for the track?
11) The real question since you can't track it. Is it a daily driver like the Gen 1?....Rod

Left Hander
07-02-2011, 07:56 PM
Its good to be the Gator Bite:cool2:. Is the 918 Spyder Advocate job open?

Here is what I want to know:

1) Are the tether door pulls an annoyance or are they really functional?
2) After its all done would you tick the $8k box for the PCCBs?
3) Where are the power sockets?
4) Would you go PDK on your next Cayman?
5) Does the Sport Chrono combo you have give you any data you can use for the track?
6) Do the current crop of harness bars fit the R or is there an R version?
7) Any guages the Gen 1 or 2 does not have?
8) Does the fixed spoiler get in way of the usability of the rear luggage space?
9) Is the tow hook socket the same?
10) Is there any reason you could not go with 18s on it for the track?
11) The real question since you can't track it. Is it a daily driver like the Gen 1?....Rod

great list rod, I'll add to it

12) not a better person to compare the sport exhaust to several aftermarket exhausts - how does the sport exhaust sound, compare, would you tick the box for this if it were an option or go aftermarket?
13) take your S and the R to the same tight twisties you are familiar with, drive both and report is you feel any torque or hp difference, or can feel a difference in the balance of the cars
14) you have pasm on both cars, can you tell any difference?
15) I think it is supposed to be lowered, measure clearance on yours and the R and check out some steep drive entrances - any problem with clearance?

Eena
07-02-2011, 10:31 PM
I'd do about 500 launch control starts if I had this car for a week. How is the launch control?

AWESOME - just amazing!!!! I was laughing like a little kid and thinking "I wanna do it again....!!!"

Gator Bite
07-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Gatorbite...please, no commercials! Why did I get an e-mail invitation?

doesn't this "Violate the rules"?

smlcayman

Well, if I were selling something, yes it would be a violation. I don't sell cars and stand nothing to gain by anyone buying or selling a Cayman R. I was simply trying to share my access to this very cool car with you.

I love my 2007 Cayman S. I am in no position to buy a Cayman R, as I suspect is the case form many of our members. That doesn't change the fact that I find the Cayman R, the most refined Cayman ever made, very interesting. I am having a real blast with this car and just trying to share that excitement with you.

My apologies if my attempt to share that excitement offended you in some way. I try to keep the e-mail communications to members at an absolute minimum. I bet the average member won't receive 6 e-mails a year from me. If however that's too much for you, or you don't value the information and event announcements that I share, you are welcome to opt out of e-mail communications. You can learn more about how to do that in our FAQ section (http://caymanregister.org/faq.php?faq=crfaqs#faq_notification). If you can't figure it out and need help, just PM me and I'd be happy to unsubscribe you.


I'd do about 500 launch control starts if I had this car for a week. How is the launch control?

I've done that twice, and it's like being shot out of a cannon. But I just don't feel good doing it. I am treating this car as if I owned it, and I'm not sure I would use that feature very frequently because it feels abusive. But man, is it fun..... :smile: Oh, and to do that 500 times, you'd need about 4 sets of rear tires. :wink:


Mike,
One of the things I would do with a cayman R is take a look at mechanical stuff and see what they did differently. For example, is brake cooling any different? Any signs of ducts for the rear brakes? Might be a good source of parts rather than adapting 996/997 items.

You probably should wait for the driveway to dry off before you take a look...

Have fun! Glad all the work you put into the register has some perks.

Dave

I'll put it up on ramps and have a look. Tomorrow moring... Stand by.


Mike,

My question causes the question to delta into a general value equation. Since I am one of those guys looking to get "more" of everything at the best value, my question is:

Does the incremental cost of the R present a great value for the improved performance versus buying a used version and doing the mods to get the same or more horses, torque, handling?

Living in AZ and it being 119 today, I can tell you an "everyday" car without AC is not a choice so AC is an add or this is a track only car.

So lets take a used S with PDK, install new aftermarket: exhaust, intake, improved lower end on the motor (what Greg is doing and I will be doing pro-actively shortly), intake, PSS9 or other suspension, sway bars, camber plates and a bigger brake kit and two racing seats and belts- so you are looking at 15-20k if you do most of your own work and get opportunistic buys. A quick scan shows 2009 S at $50k or less. Then you strip it down to 2900 or so pounds from 3200. That will be one bad *** racer that you could drive everyday if you wanted to (with AC in my case).

So, with that criteria, is it a good value or not? I realize it is only your opinion and based upon the bias' you have openly expressed in the past (not criticizing) that if it is a close call you'll go with the R, BUT I really value your opinion, advice and acumen concerning the car and the marque. So what be It?

Really great question that can't be answered quickly and easily. I will come back around to this one. I feel this is the real question and I think I can most accurately answer it after a full week behind the wheel.


The included pictures are great, but let's get Pete to take about a gazillion pix as well.

Then, we figure out how to swap those sport buckets for my sport seats (I REALLY want some sport buckets!) and I'm good to go...

I think your idea of some scenic drives is fantastic - that's what I'd do - so would it be possible to do some immediate back-to-back drives between your CS and the R on the same roads? Your impressions of the similarities and differences would be very worthwhile, IMO.

Would it be possible, and within the limits of your "borrow" to put the R on a dyno - again back-to-back with your CS? Just another thought...

In the works.... On many levels.... :wink:


Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it has to go back to Porsche before Parade.... otherwise, I'd be running in Showroom Stock, if you get my drift...

I heard from a little birdie that there may be a few Cayman R's at Parade.... If I were you, I'd sign up for the Michelin Drive and Compare.... :wink:


Interested in hearing more about your experience with the PDK. In my driving I found the PDK sport mode to be pleasant enough [on the Permagrin scale :cool2:] that I might consider it instead of a manual (when I get really old...or plan on a lot of driving in traffic or big cities) but I did not find the regular mode one I would ever want to use. Looking forward to more of your experiences. As others have stated, I wouldn't want it without AC here in Vegas.


How well PDK operates still seems to be of general interest. Ed Merry mentioned that his seems to shift up to 7th fairly quickly (a bit too early?) in normal mode. Does the Gator Bite R do the same? Are there any driving situations where PDK might be "caught out"; that is, not make what an experienced driver might consider the better choice of gearing? Normal and sport modes are mapped differently, but what are the implications of these differences for the driver? For example, would sport mode be as appropriate for spirited road driving as for the track?

Can you say more about your experience with the PDK, both in manual and auto mode? What have you learned about using it?

At first I wasn't really that crazy about PDK. But as you learn it, it morphs into an amazing piece of technology. Like I mentioned before, I'll come back around to this question after more miles. I think I do see a PDK in my future. I'm just not sure how soon that will be.


Its good to be the Gator Bite:cool2:. Is the 918 Spyder Advocate job open?

Here is what I want to know:

1) Are the tether door pulls an annoyance or are they really functional?

At first, maybe slightly. But then you start to appreciate them. They are actually easier to use than the door handle. I do not like the fact that you can see the Torx screw that would normally be hidden by the door handle. And I can't imagine how much weight they really save. But the homage that they pay to the '73 RS is cool, and I enjoy explaining it to people. They are worth it just for that, if you enjoy that sort of thing.


2) After its all done would you tick the $8k box for the PCCBs?

My jury is still out on that question. The modulation is really superior to the steel brakes. I need more time to say if they are $8,150 better.


3) Where are the power sockets?

Same location as the Cayman and Cayman S.


4) Would you go PDK on your next Cayman?

See above. Coming later.


5) Does the Sport Chrono combo you have give you any data you can use for the track?

Not sure. I haven't dug into it to that level yet. I'll see what I can learn. Good question.

6) Do the current crop of harness bars fit the R or is there an R version?

I don't see any change here. The same harness bar should fit.


7) Any gauges the Gen 1 or 2 does not have?

No, but the onboard computer options have some added functionality. I see that you can actually choose a radio station from the computer stalk and cluster. I'll look for other functions.


8) Does the fixed spoiler get in way of the usability of the rear luggage space?

No, not at all. But I can't help but notice that the 'plug' where the 'S' spoiler would go looks a little like an after thought. Only because water and soap can go in there. It would have been nice to have a new bumper cover that would make a simple one piece solution, but I understand why they don't do so.


9) Is the tow hook socket the same?

Yes.


10) Is there any reason you could not go with 18s on it for the track?

If it had steel brakes, no reason why the 18's wouldn't fit. With the PCCBs, I don't think they would. When I washed it, I couldn't help but notice there is not a lot of room between the calipers and wheels.


11) The real question since you can't track it. Is it a daily driver like the Gen 1?....Rod

I'm driving it every day, for work, for fun, whatever. Porsche's latest marketing claim is that their cars are good for everyday use, so that's what I'm doing with it. This particular Cayman R, with the sport buckets and no A/C probably wouldn't be the best pick for every day use. The sport buckets are not easy to get in and out of. The lack of A/C is really tough. But the usability of the suspension and the comfort of the seats over many hours have really impressed me.


great list rod, I'll add to it

12) not a better person to compare the sport exhaust to several aftermarket exhausts - how does the sport exhaust sound, compare, would you tick the box for this if it were an option or go aftermarket?

Without a second of though, absolutely. This is the exhaust system that I want. This car sounds so cool, and with the press of a button it's whisper quiet. This engine and exhaust sing such a beautiful song. It's not super loud in 'loud mode', but loud enough. A bit quieter than my speedART, but it sounds better. No doubt. I would check this option off in a second and never look back.


13) take your S and the R to the same tight twisties you are familiar with, drive both and report is you feel any torque or hp difference, or can feel a difference in the balance of the cars

Stand by. I plan to drive my favorite twisties (which I've driven dozens of times in my S) on Monday. I may have the S following me, so I can jump out and do it again.

14) you have PASM on both cars, can you tell any difference?

PASM is NOT available on the Cayman R. The R is harder than my S when in sport mode, yet it's more comfortable. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's undeniable. The R is razor sharp, tight and predictable.


15) I think it is supposed to be lowered, measure clearance on yours and the R and check out some steep drive entrances - any problem with clearance?

My PASM equipped S is 10mm lower than a regular Cayman. The R is 20mm lower. I'll measure them. The bigger issue is that the car also has the front Aero Spoiler lips. I went into a driveway today, at my friend Eric's house, where I often have problems in my S. The R was no worse, but I did back out because I expected problems exiting (because my S often scrapes there). Backing out, there as no issue. You need to be conscious of the fact that it's low and long. If you do, you won't have a problem.

ENGNR1
07-02-2011, 11:56 PM
1) What kind of adjustments are there on the sport seats? My understanding is you have to use a wrench to adjust the seat back and forth and recline it. True or false?

2) How does the ride on the R compare to an S with PASM? I already suspect the handling is superior on the R.

pbspeed
07-03-2011, 07:03 AM
Mike- you are sneaky. You didn't mention you were gonna spend time with an "R." I'm also interested in how the seats treat you day in and day out. I was very interested in this car....however in the end.....I decided it was probably a stretch for my first Porsche. Anyway, I'm interested in all aspects of the driving experience.....steering feel any better than your S? How are those BRAKES? How does a - from the factory - 330 HP motivate? I'll assume you won't be running speeds where the "splitters" and rear wing will really come into play, but I'll just assume the car is planted very well.

So, if I had a Cayman R for a few days.....I'd look at it for a few minutes....yes, it's a great looking car....but after that, I wouldn't leave the driver's seat....

Have fun! And for the record....I was going to order mine without A/C:grin: Get this: the dealer rep said he "wouldn't order it that way" for me......

a57356
07-03-2011, 09:02 AM
Mike - if your travels make it to the Stamford area, let me know

Jerry

check 6
07-03-2011, 09:10 AM
Let me comment on the seats. I have the sport bucket seats in my 2010 Cayman and love them. I have over 12,000 miles both in town and highway (plus some tracking) and wish I had them in my Carrera. My wife and I (both 69 and me with a bad back) drove the Cayman from south Texas to Parade last year and the seats were great on our backs.10 plus hours in the car each of several days and no back pain. Now two senior citizens getting out is another thing and not very graceful. I have a cushion for my wife so she does not have to climb over the side bolster. Adjustments are forward and aft, that's it but no problem and they are light.

Gator Bite
07-03-2011, 09:38 AM
1) What kind of adjustments are there on the sport seats? My understanding is you have to use a wrench to adjust the seat back and forth and recline it. True or false?

2) How does the ride on the R compare to an S with PASM? I already suspect the handling is superior on the R.

It's like a PASM car in sport mode, but it doesn't bounce or porpoise like my S does in sport mode. It's more comfortable on rough pavement.


Mike- you are sneaky. You didn't mention you were gonna spend time with an "R." I'm also interested in how the seats treat you day in and day out. I was very interested in this car....however in the end.....I decided it was probably a stretch for my first Porsche. Anyway, I'm interested in all aspects of the driving experience.....steering feel any better than your S? How are those BRAKES? How does a - from the factory - 330 HP motivate? I'll assume you won't be running speeds where the "splitters" and rear wing will really come into play, but I'll just assume the car is planted very well.

So, if I had a Cayman R for a few days.....I'd look at it for a few minutes....yes, it's a great looking car....but after that, I wouldn't leave the driver's seat....

Have fun! And for the record....I was going to order mine without A/C:grin: Get this: the dealer rep said he "wouldn't order it that way" for me......

Yeah, I was sort of sworn to secrecy. Steering feel is better than my S. The car turns in very sharply. I suspect it's from the alignment. I will be looking up those specs for sure. The brakes are amazing....!!! Now I haven't used them on the track, but on the street they are incredible, strong, easy to modulate. Like you, I am having a hard time not driving this car....

See you soon....


Mike - if your travels make it to the Stamford area, let me know

Jerry

Jerry, please e-mail or text me your cell phone number. I may be in the area within the next day or two.


Let me comment on the seats. I have the sport bucket seats in my 2010 Cayman and love them. I have over 12,000 miles both in town and highway (plus some tracking) and wish I had them in my Carrera. My wife and I (both 69 and me with a bad back) drove the Cayman from south Texas to Parade last year and the seats were great on our backs.10 plus hours in the car each of several days and no back pain. Now two senior citizens getting out is another thing and not very graceful. I have a cushion for my wife so she does not have to climb over the side bolster. Adjustments are forward and aft, that's it but no problem and they are light.

Perfect Jack. Thanks. I don't think I could have said that without offending people. :smile: The seats are very comfortable when you're in them. Getting in, and out is the trick... And I suspect that the older I get the more of a trick it would be. Prefect testimonial coming from you and Sandy.

Left Hander
07-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Miuke anyone around you have a car with GT3 seats? I'd be interested in your comparison of the entry/exit comparison between the two.

FWIW exit from the GT3 seats isn't really that bad for me - I put my left hand on the sill, right on the wheel and just pivot my butt up and out of the seat. (A bit tougher on the passenger side as you have the outboard hand but no steering wheel.)

PistolPete
07-03-2011, 10:42 AM
Hey Left Hander,

Yes, we'll have some GT3 seats (the cobra head type) available for Mke to compare. :wink:

My impression is that the side sills on the GT3 seats are just a touch lower than the Cayman R GT2 type seats so your behind won't get slammed as hard getting in and out. Did I just say that? We'll get some measurements.

-Pete

Keoni986
07-03-2011, 11:28 AM
Mike, What I'm really looking forward to is the write up in Panorama. That's going to be interesting! You are going to publish the experience right??? :grin:

I'm Keoni986

AJK
07-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Others have already asked all the questions I would be interested in, but just for emphases, please compare and contrast between the R and your S, and a single one big post summary would be appreciated.

Bill-banger
07-03-2011, 02:11 PM
Well, first thing I'd do would be to take a 2-3 day trip to somewhere with really interesting roads. Then I'd drive the hound out of it every day, all day, until they pried the steering wheel from my warm, cramped fingers.

Seriously, some guys get all the luck! I think the car should be passed around to the rest of the faithful Cayman Register folks, and I'll gladly step to the front of the line. Tough job, yada, yada, yada. I love the color combo. My local dealer has a white one with black interior and red belts, but said they are getting a Meteor Gray this Fall with silver belts and gray interior. The mechanic at the dealership also told me that the 10hp bump feels like a lot more than that, so I would like some input about that, is it really a lot stronger than the regular S?

Maybe Porsche should raffle the car of among the Register members when you're done with it........

:hmm:

TraderGuy
07-03-2011, 02:37 PM
Does the incremental cost of the R present a great value for the improved performance versus buying a used version and doing the mods to get the same or more horses, torque, handling?

I'd also like to know if you feel the improvements in the car present enough value for an upgrade from a Gen 1 car. Also, sounds like Pistol Pete may be arranging a back to back with a GT3, if that's the case I'd like your thoughts on the comparison.

Guy

Amazin
07-03-2011, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the email heads-up! As an infrequent visitor to the site I would have missed it, for a while at least.

Not something you can do in your week of "ownership", but if I were fortunate enough to have a CR the first thing I would do is remove the side stripe. Is that a no-cost delete option?

Great report, looking forward to more. Sounds significantly more "amazin" than my 2006 CS Amazin!

kb19
07-03-2011, 03:11 PM
Like many others, I'd be interested in any engineering changes ... I think much of this has been gone over before, but I'll ask anyway.

Limited slip diff - any updates with the R?
camber adjustments - any improvements with dialing in more camber?
sway bars - same as before?
gauges - still no oil pressure?
electronics - you touched on this earlier, any more options/capabilities?

Thanks!

Jim Step
07-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Race it - or at least go to Drivers ED.

Ed Merry
07-03-2011, 04:30 PM
How well PDK operates still seems to be of general interest. Ed Merry mentioned that his seems to shift up to 7th fairly quickly (a bit too early?) in normal mode. Does the Gator Bite R do the same? Are there any driving situations where PDK might be "caught out"; that is, not make what an experienced driver might consider the better choice of gearing? Normal and sport modes are mapped differently, but what are the implications of these differences for the driver? For example, would sport mode be as appropriate for spirited road driving as for the track?

Jim: With now 6.5 K miles, 3 track days and 12-14 days into the mountain twisties, I have not yet found any case where PDK is "caught out". Keep in mind PDK also has an AI function. The first lap on the track, it sometimes seems to shift too low but as the laps increase, it gets sweeter and sweeter. Same with mountain twisties.

With respect to 7th gear, I think PDK quickly goes to this to get the really good MPG numbers (low 30s in interstates). But I can keep it in lower gear with "Sport " selected and put the PDK lever in manual. I just need to remember to upshift sometimes. "Sport +" is too aggressive for my mountain twisties at it goes all the way to red-line to shift. I hope these insights help. Drive Safe and hope to see you-all at the parade. Ed

Ed Merry
07-03-2011, 04:40 PM
Its good to be the Gator Bite:cool2:. Is the 918 Spyder Advocate job open?

Here is what I want to know: (I have inserted my comments and opinions, Ed)

1) Are the tether door pulls an annoyance or are they really functional? Not an annoyance. You do need to remember the aluminum doors need to be closed firmly as they weigh less than steel doors and have less momentum at closing. Also I had to get vinyl track numbers as the magnetic ones won't stick.

2) After its all done would you tick the $8k box for the PCCBs? Personally I'd rather spend $8K on other options than could use more.

3) Where are the power sockets? Same as in the Cayman S: right wheel well and center ash tray.

4) Would you go PDK on your next Cayman? Now 6.5K miles later, absolutely. Love the paddles.


5) Does the Sport Chrono combo you have give you any data you can use for the track? Same as the older SC. I personally find it hard to use while driving aggressively. I have to focus on the road. Note my SC is w/o PCM.


6) Do the current crop of harness bars fit the R or is there an R version? No change but you need sport BUCKETS or such to use a harness bar. Std Sport seats do not have slots for the 5-6 point harness.

7) Any gauges the Gen 1 or 2 does not have? No change. Note the oil level is now checked with the car in idle and warm.

8) Does the fixed spoiler get in way of the usability of the rear luggage space? Spoiler is all exterior so no change to storage. Also the rear wing is out of sight so backing up is not compromised.

9) Is the tow hook socket the same? Same front and back.

10) Is there any reason you could not go with 18s on it for the track? Probably but others should know more about offsets, etc.

11) The real question since you can't track it. Is it a daily driver like the Gen 1?....Rod

Now with 6.5K miles, 3 track days and many days driving mountain twisites, my opinion is an enthususatic YES. IMHO. Ed Merry

Ed Merry
07-03-2011, 04:59 PM
great list rod, I'll add to it

(Again I am inserting my opinions and experiences here, Ed)

12) not a better person to compare the sport exhaust to several aftermarket exhausts - how does the sport exhaust sound, compare, would you tick the box for this if it were an option or go aftermarket?

Don't know. Personally I was running out of money otherwise I'd probably add PSE.

13) take your S and the R to the same tight twisties you are familiar with, drive both and report is you feel any torque or hp difference, or can feel a difference in the balance of the cars.

Yes, the R is significantly quicker, peppier in the mid-range and more eager to turn in compared to my Gen 1 CS with PASM and SC. The LSD does make a difference in the switchbacks here in VA. I base this from driving both the same 8 twisty roads.

14) you have pasm on both cars, can you tell any difference?

Yes there is a difference. Both cars had 19" wheels and same PS2 sized tires. Note the CR used 31 PSI all around. My Gen 1 CS had PASM and I really liked it. The CR only comes with fixed coils and shocks. My driving impression is that the CR is stiffer than the Gen 1 PASM in "Normal" but not as stiff as PASM in "Sport". I was concerned about this as I'm 65 and I have ridden in some GT3. After a while my "innerds" start hurting in a GT3. Not so in the CR. The most I have driven in 1 day so far is 600 miles. Got home still comfortable in the Std Sport Seats.


15) I think it is supposed to be lowered, measure clearance on yours and the R and check out some steep drive entrances - any problem with clearance?

Yes it is lower and I do have to be careful not to "grunch" the nose of the car. If in doubt, I go slowly and try to take an angle. So again with 6.5K miles all over the place, I have "grunched" the nose only once. BUt I now watch more carefully.


I hope these comments and opinions help. All this writing makes me want to take another mountain trip but my CR is on jack stands getting cleaned up for the Parade. AARRGH. But after the Parade, I'm bound for my favorite NC mountain roads. Drive Safe. Ed

rstrahota
07-04-2011, 06:43 AM
"...If you had a Cayman R for a week, what would you do with it? "

Mike:
If I had a Cayman R, I would most certainly loan it to me for a day...
ds

FTS
07-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Note on PCCBs: I believe all PCCBs are the same size, and they are the same diameter as the steels on the GT2/3s. We can fit 18" wheels on GTs, so it should not pose an issues on the Cayman. The only thing the balancer needs to be aware is to put the wheel weights on the edges, otherwise they'll scrape the calipers.

Gator Bite
07-04-2011, 10:40 AM
Mike anyone around you have a car with GT3 seats? I'd be interested in your comparison of the entry/exit comparison between the two.

FWIW exit from the GT3 seats isn't really that bad for me - I put my left hand on the sill, right on the wheel and just pivot my butt up and out of the seat. (A bit tougher on the passenger side as you have the outboard hand but no steering wheel.)

As Pete mentioned, my luck just keeps getting better. I got to drive a new GT-3 yesterday, back to back with the R. The cars are so different that it's almost silly to compare them. The GT-3 is a super visceral mechanical track assault tool and it never lets you forget it. The pull is amazing....!!!

Anyway, back to your questions, the seats in the GT-3 were easier to get in and out of, they felt as if they were softer too. The difference was not huge, but the GT-2 seats in the R do hold you a bit tighter.


Others have already asked all the questions I would be interested in, but just for emphases, please compare and contrast between the R and your S, and a single one big post summary would be appreciated.

I'll come back around to that. The differences aren't huge. The R has a lot of little enhancements that add up to a unique sum.


I'd also like to know if you feel the improvements in the car present enough value for an upgrade from a Gen 1 car. Also, sounds like Pistol Pete may be arranging a back to back with a GT3, if that's the case I'd like your thoughts on the comparison.

Guy

It really all comes down to the driver/owner. For the right person, there is a ton of value here that would make an upgrade sensible but that won't apply to everyone.


Thanks for the email heads-up! As an infrequent visitor to the site I would have missed it, for a while at least.

Not something you can do in your week of "ownership", but if I were fortunate enough to have a CR the first thing I would do is remove the side stripe. Is that a no-cost delete option?

Great report, looking forward to more. Sounds significantly more "amazin" than my 2006 CS Amazin!

You're welcome. I'm glad the e-mail was of value to you. That was my intention.

I'll find out about the decal. I don't know the answer to that one. Good question.


Like many others, I'd be interested in any engineering changes ... I think much of this has been gone over before, but I'll ask anyway.

Limited slip diff - any updates with the R?
camber adjustments - any improvements with dialing in more camber?
sway bars - same as before?
gauges - still no oil pressure?
electronics - you touched on this earlier, any more options/capabilities?

Thanks!

Differential - It's nice to have an LSD.

Camber - Not sure yet. I'll find out. I don't think there is any change here.

Sway Bars - the car has stiffer bars, and you can really feel it. It feels much like my car (which has TPC racing bars on it).

Gauges - No change to the cluster, except the removal of the hood.

Electronics - I'll learn more and report back.


"...If you had a Cayman R for a week, what would you do with it? "

Mike:
If I had a Cayman R, I would most certainly loan it to me for a day...
ds

:smile:


Note on PCCBs: I believe all PCCBs are the same size, and they are the same diameter as the steels on the GT2/3s. We can fit 18" wheels on GTs, so it should not pose an issues on the Cayman. The only thing the balancer needs to be aware is to put the wheel weights on the edges, otherwise they'll scrape the calipers.

Croc'ed and I took a closer look yesterday, there appears to be room for an 18", but it would be tight as you mentioned.

Gator Bite
07-04-2011, 10:45 AM
Mike, What I'm really looking forward to is the write up in Panorama. That's going to be interesting! You are going to publish the experience right??? :grin:

I'm Keoni986

Definitely.... I want to share this with the entire PCA.

Ed Merry
07-04-2011, 11:56 AM
SOme more comments from Ed Merry



I'll come back around to that. The differences aren't huge. The R has a lot of little enhancements that add up to a unique sum. (Amen to that, Ed)



Camber - Not sure yet. I'll find out. I don't think there is any change here. (Yes you can get more negative camber but the CR does not have GT3 LCA or drop links. The Excellence article gives specific numbers. When I got my CR the dealer aligned it to "Boxster Spyder" specs. Ed)


I hope these comments help.Drive Safe and enjoy this wonderful country on the 4th of July. Ed

PistolPete
07-04-2011, 12:13 PM
Some misc. notes.

The older style GT3 "Cobra head" seats measure 8" deep from the lowest part of the seat to the side bolster. The GT2 style seats (thorax airbags) measure 6" deep from the same spot. However, the side bolster on the GT2 seats comes out to the front of the seat in a straight line and gives you more support along the length of your thigh. For me it makes it a bit tougher to get out of the newer GT2 seats.

The GT3 seats has a slight scoop that lowers the side height as it approaches the front of the seat.

The lowest point measured from the ground to the bumper is 3.75 inches on the GT3. On the Cayman R, the lowest point is the front spoilers on either side of the car. This measures 6.5 inches from the ground.

Captain Happy
07-04-2011, 11:45 PM
SOme more comments from Ed Merry



Camber - Not sure yet. I'll find out. I don't think there is any change here. (Yes you can get more negative camber but the CR does not have GT3 LCA or drop links. The Excellence article gives specific numbers. When I got my CR the dealer aligned it to "Boxster Spyder" specs. Ed)




I think Ed is right. You can get to about -1.3 degrees of negative camber on the front now but that is probably due to the 20mm lowering from standard. Still not enough for a dedicated AX or DE car but not bad for a street/AX/DE car. I'd certainly take it.

Craig

LUXVI
07-05-2011, 01:21 AM
From what I have read it is nothing I would want. I am not sure what the target market was for the R? I guess it's just a fun idea for some enthusiasts?

Gator Bite
07-05-2011, 07:53 AM
SOme more comments from Ed Merry



I'll come back around to that. The differences aren't huge. The R has a lot of little enhancements that add up to a unique sum. (Amen to that, Ed)



Camber - Not sure yet. I'll find out. I don't think there is any change here. (Yes you can get more negative camber but the CR does not have GT3 LCA or drop links. The Excellence article gives specific numbers. When I got my CR the dealer aligned it to "Boxster Spyder" specs. Ed)


I hope these comments help.Drive Safe and enjoy this wonderful country on the 4th of July. Ed

Thanks Ed. Perfect...!!




From what I have read it is nothing I would want. I am not sure what the target market was for the R? I guess it's just a fun idea for some enthusiasts?

I think the target is the track minded Cayman buyer, or the guy that just wants the most feedback he can get in a street Cayman. Think about it. If you're really into the track, you can buy a Cayman S and then spend $8,000 on seats and installation, then another $6,000 on a descent suspension setup with sway bars. Then another $4,000 on some light weight racing wheels and $2,000 on a free flow exhaust system for a grand total of $20,000 spent making it more track focused. Or, you could spend $4,800 and get an R that comes with all of that stuff and more.

pbspeed
07-05-2011, 08:27 AM
Awesome info here! Stop making me feel bad for buying a lowly 2.7:cry::grin: I can only imagine how incredible the R is. Thanks for giving the best possible idea through text Mike!

Gator Bite
07-05-2011, 09:23 AM
Awesome info here! Stop making me feel bad for buying a lowly 2.7:cry::grin: I can only imagine how incredible the R is. Thanks for giving the best possible idea through text Mike!

Don't feel left out. I drove Dave's (Croc'ed) 2.7 this weekend and that thing screams.... Dave has installed the Boxster Spyder suspension, headers, sport exhaust and racing seats. So he has a 2.7 liter R by all accounts.

cman21
07-05-2011, 09:52 AM
Will the Cayman R shocks and dampers fit on the gen 1 cars?

Gator Bite
07-05-2011, 10:03 AM
Will the Cayman R shocks and dampers fit on the gen 1 cars?

Yes, no problem.

cman21
07-05-2011, 10:41 AM
Suncoast lists a Cayman R shock and spring retofit kit for the gen2's but it isn't listed for gen 1's Any idea why they don't include the gen 1 on the site?

Gator Bite
07-05-2011, 11:15 AM
Suncoast lists a Cayman R shock and spring retofit kit for the gen2's but it isn't listed for gen 1's Any idea why they don't include the gen 1 on the site?

I don't know of any reason why that wouldn't fit a Gen I car. Croc'ed installed the Boxster Spyder suspension on his Gen I Cayman without a problem.

Keep in mind that the kit offered at Suncaost does not include sway bars (just struts). The sway bars are different on the R, so to gain the R suspension you'd need to add the sway bars and sway bar bushings to this package.

Croc'ed
07-05-2011, 12:17 PM
What would I do with a Cayman R...? You mean, besides finding its limits on a race track?
I'd put it on a lift and photograph everything on the "business end" that is unique to the R.

Re: PCCB's, to my eyes, the R's front rotors are smaller diameter than the '11 GT3's. 18" wheels should clear the PCCB's calipers (at least on the Cayman.)

Re: Cayman R/Boxster Spyder suspension retrofit, I'd see no problem retrofitting it to a Gen 1 Cayman/Boxster, but a thorough investigation of the PET catalog is required in order to thoroughly identify the "delta" parts list. For further discussion, may I suggest using PM and/or a starting a new thread?

pbspeed
07-05-2011, 01:14 PM
Don't feel left out. I drove Dave's (Croc'ed) 2.7 this weekend and that thing screams.... Dave has installed the Boxster Spyder suspension, headers, sport exhaust and racing seats. So he has a 2.7 liter R by all accounts.

Sounds awesome! 2.7 R works for me:cool2:

Alroad431
07-05-2011, 01:58 PM
Thanks for the email and the opportunity to ask questions about the CR. The questions I had/have either have been addressed or will be as your experience with this automobile continues. Your know, of course, that you're greatly envied. Looking forward to the full write-up on this forum and in Panorama. Enjoy!

stevecolletti
07-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Hi Mike,

Congratulations! You've more than earned it - and you will likely help Porsche sell a few more.

All of my Cayman R questions have been asked (so far), except which tires the car came with.

I do have a 'Mike' question though... you say that you'd spend the $2500+ for the PSE even though it doesn't add any performance (and it is on a closed car - I'd do it on the Spyder), but are unconvinced on PCCBs at $8K, even though there is a performance difference. Is the stock exhaust sound bad enough (have you heard the stock R or Spyder?) that you know that you'd change the exhaust or is it something else?

Thanks,
Steve

loconian
07-05-2011, 06:38 PM
Hi Mike,

I do have a 'Mike' question though... you say that you'd spend the $2500+ for the PSE even though it doesn't add any performance (and it is on a closed car - I'd do it on the Spyder), but are unconvinced on PCCBs at $8K, even though there is a performance difference. Is the stock exhaust sound bad enough (have you heard the stock R or Spyder?) that you know that you'd change the exhaust or is it something else?

Thanks,
Steve

Steve-

I like the exhaust note on my stock CS. But I did hear both a Spyder and a CR with PSE and from outside the car, the note is intoxicating. What I'm curious about is does it sound any different from inside? Windows up/down vs. the CS with stock exhaust.

Thanks,
locolad

Gator Bite
07-05-2011, 06:56 PM
Hi Mike,

Congratulations! You've more than earned it - and you will likely help Porsche sell a few more.

All of my Cayman R questions have been asked (so far), except which tires the car came with.

I do have a 'Mike' question though... you say that you'd spend the $2500+ for the PSE even though it doesn't add any performance (and it is on a closed car - I'd do it on the Spyder), but are unconvinced on PCCBs at $8K, even though there is a performance difference. Is the stock exhaust sound bad enough (have you heard the stock R or Spyder?) that you know that you'd change the exhaust or is it something else?

Thanks,
Steve

You gotta know me. I love a louder exhaust and almost anything stock is too muted for my taste. I've had 3 different aftermarket systems on my car (Borla, AWE, SpeedART). I did so for sound, not for power, and have yet to find the perfect system.

To me, the Sport Exhaust on the R delivers an almost perfect balance between loud and quiet (could be louder in the open mode). But I have to tell you, in quiet mode, like an R without sport exhuast, the car already sounds a lot better than mine ever did stock. It growls and snarls really nicely. In the open mode, you can hear all of the rice crispies come to the party when you declerate (snap - crackle - pop). I love that.

The PCCBs are really nice... But I'm not sure I'd part with the $8,150 just because I'd be afraid to ruin them on the track. If I were planning to do nothing but track, I'd probably drop the $8,150, pop steel rotors on there and have the biggest baddest brakes every on a Cayman (14.5" front and rear).

loconian
07-05-2011, 07:21 PM
Thanks for all the great details on the CR.

The previous questions covered most of my questions about PDK as a daily driver and on twisties. I have a couple of remaining questions:

1) Sport bucket seats. How is the visibility behind the passenger seat for backing out.
I have to adjust my passenger seat forward when I don't have a passenger so I can get a better view out the small passenger rear side window when I back out of my driveway in the morning. These seats seem to have a larger wing on top. How does that impact visibility? And while I'm at it does it interfere with the driver side rear view?

2) Have you driven a Spyder? I am curious how the nimble factor of the suspension & weight compares. I got to drive a Spyder at the world roadshow and was impressed with the fact that it felt more eager and nimble than my Gen1 CS. It was an automatic sense of poise and balance I didn't expect. I would like to know how the Spyder and CR would compare with what should be a stiffer body.

-loconian

Mann reist ya nicht um anzukommen, sondern um zu reizen. (Goethe)

stevecolletti
07-05-2011, 08:00 PM
You gotta know me. I love a louder exhaust and almost anything stock is too muted for my taste. I've had 3 different aftermarket systems on my car (Borla, AWE, SpeedART). I did so for sound, not for power, and have yet to find the perfect system.

To me, the Sport Exhaust on the R delivers an almost perfect balance between loud and quiet (could be louder in the open mode). But I have to tell you, in quiet mode, like an R without sport exhuast, the car already sounds a lot better than mine ever did stock. It growls and snarls really nicely. In the open mode, you can hear all of the rice crispies come to the party when you declerate (snap - crackle - pop). I love that.

The PCCBs are really nice... But I'm not sure I'd part with the $8,150 just because I'd be afraid to ruin them on the track. If I were planning to do nothing but track, I'd probably drop the $8,150, pop steel rotors on there and have the biggest baddest brakes every on a Cayman (14.5" front and rear).
Thanks, Mike.

I read all the exhaust reviews, but thought you were doing them for performance (primarily) while enhancing sound. Thanks for the clarification.

What tires are on the R? (I can't believe the R and the Spyder don't come with MPSCs!).

Steve

Left Hander
07-05-2011, 08:11 PM
You gotta know me. I love a louder exhaust and almost anything stock is too muted for my taste. I've had 3 different aftermarket systems on my car (Borla, AWE, SpeedART). I did so for sound, not for power, and have yet to find the perfect system.

To me, the Sport Exhaust on the R delivers an almost perfect balance between loud and quiet (could be louder in the open mode). But I have to tell you, in quiet mode, like an R without sport exhuast, the car already sounds a lot better than mine ever did stock. It growls and snarls really nicely. In the open mode, you can hear all of the rice crispies come to the party when you declerate (snap - crackle - pop). I love that.

The PCCBs are really nice... But I'm not sure I'd part with the $8,150 just because I'd be afraid to ruin them on the track. If I were planning to do nothing but track, I'd probably drop the $8,150, pop steel rotors on there and have the biggest baddest brakes every on a Cayman (14.5" front and rear).

I know the PCCB are supposed to not wear out, but just the thought of damaging one or more and having to replace them really hurts. This past march at the zone2 vir de a paddock neighbor with an 07 gt3 with ceramics needed help changing brake pads so I showed him how it is done. I was shocked to see the fronts were wearing very unevenly and while one edge was almost to the backing plate the other end where the wear sensor happened to be was only half worn! luckily he caught this before it ate his rotor!

guess I'd need to drive them on the track to be convinced I wanted them.

Mike this does prompt a new CR question - are the calipers built like the cayman s where you can change the pads easily ? the gt3 front caliper has a bolt rather than a pin with r-key and the rear caliper has to actualy be removed from the hub to change the rear pads. If the CR pads are easy to pull as on the cayman s then it would be much easier to keep a close check on your brake pads to protect those pccb rotors.

Badger1
07-05-2011, 11:39 PM
I haven't read all the threads to see how the PDK compares to the manual. I'm not sure if I'd want to give up the 5 speed in my Cayman. But the R looks quite impressive.

PistolPete
07-05-2011, 11:45 PM
Thanks, Mike.

I read all the exhaust reviews, but thought you were doing them for performance (primarily) while enhancing sound. Thanks for the clarification.

What tires are on the R? (I can't believe the R and the Spyder don't come with MPSCs!).

Steve

Standard 19" Bridgestone RE-050A's, the N-1 version.

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5629

Whoops! How did I get access to a Peridot Cayman R? :wink:

PistolPete
07-05-2011, 11:53 PM
I know the PCCB are supposed to not wear out, but just the thought of damaging one or more and having to replace them really hurts. This past march at the zone2 vir de a paddock neighbor with an 07 gt3 with ceramics needed help changing brake pads so I showed him how it is done. I was shocked to see the fronts were wearing very unevenly and while one edge was almost to the backing plate the other end where the wear sensor happened to be was only half worn! luckily he caught this before it ate his rotor!

guess I'd need to drive them on the track to be convinced I wanted them.

Mike this does prompt a new CR question - are the calipers built like the cayman s where you can change the pads easily ? the gt3 front caliper has a bolt rather than a pin with r-key and the rear caliper has to actualy be removed from the hub to change the rear pads. If the CR pads are easy to pull as on the cayman s then it would be much easier to keep a close check on your brake pads to protect those pccb rotors.

On the Cayman R with PCCB's (yellow caliper) the front caliper design is identical to that of the GT3 steel caliper with the bolt that you're talking about. I believe this is the uprated 6-piston Brembo unit.

997.2 GT3 Front Steel Caliper

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5630

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5631

997.2 GT2-RS PCCB Caliper

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5632

Cayman R PCCB Caliper (note the bolt you're talking about)

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5627

Cayman R standard steel caliper

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5629

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure the standard Cayman R front rotors are the same as the stock Cayman S front rotors.

Yes, I like my brake calipers...

PistolPete
07-06-2011, 12:00 AM
997.2 GT3 rear caliper. Note you have to remove the caliper to change pads.

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5633

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5634

Cayman R PCCB rear caliper. I'm 90% sure this has the solid bridge across that back like the GT3 rear and will require removal to change pads. The design is unique, Mike will have to check.

http://caymanregister.org/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=5628


The standard Cayman R steel rear is the same caliper as we have on the Cayman S so changing pads is straightforward.

Left Hander
07-06-2011, 05:26 AM
Thanks Pistol Pete. That is a bummer to the pccbs in my view. It does look like they have put the 6 piston caliper on the cayman R.

Any engineer out there have a view on why the less "change friendly" design on the caliper on the 997 gt3 versus the Cayman S caliper? On the fronts I would think a sliding pin with an R-key would be just as good as a bolt requiring a socket to remove but I am no engineer. I just don't get the need for a solid bridge on the rear caliper involving removal, juggling the caliper and pads to change them (brake line still attached) and torqueing the caliper mount bolts.

PP have they changed the caliper mounting bolt material such that they do not recommend changing the bolts when you re-mount the caliper as they do on the 986/987 platform?

Gator Bite
07-06-2011, 07:58 AM
Thanks Pistol Pete. That is a bummer to the pccbs in my view. It does look like they have put the 6 piston caliper on the cayman R.

Any engineer out there have a view on why the less "change friendly" design on the caliper on the 997 gt3 versus the Cayman S caliper? On the fronts I would think a sliding pin with an R-key would be just as good as a bolt requiring a socket to remove but I am no engineer. I just don't get the need for a solid bridge on the rear caliper involving removal, juggling the caliper and pads to change them (brake line still attached) and torqueing the caliper mount bolts.

PP have they changed the caliper mounting bolt material such that they do not recommend changing the bolts when you re-mount the caliper as they do on the 986/987 platform?

Woah, slow down. Don't panic... The PCCBs are only marginally harder to change the pads on. That pin that goes across the top of the caliper is held in place by a short bolt instead of a retaining clip. So yes, you'll need a wrench instead of a pick but it's no big deal. The rear PCCB caliper is basically just like our regular front caliper, no change in procedure there. I wouldn't expect a pad replacement on a PCCB equipped Cayman to take any longer than that on a standard brake Cayman, well maybe 1 minute more to screw in and tighten those two bolts.

Porsche still recommends that the caliper bolts be replaced on the GT-3 rears. In the 2011 GT-3 Rear Brake Replacement procedure they say:
"Fit the brake caliper on the wheel carrier. As a general rule, use new fastening screws. Tightening torque: 85 Nm (63 ftlb.)."
I bet most folks are not changing those bolts.

Croc'ed
07-06-2011, 08:27 AM
Thanks Pistol Pete. That is a bummer to the pccbs in my view. It does look like they have put the 6 piston caliper on the cayman R.

Any engineer out there have a view on why the less "change friendly" design on the caliper on the 997 gt3 versus the Cayman S caliper? On the fronts I would think a sliding pin with an R-key would be just as good as a bolt requiring a socket to remove but I am no engineer. I just don't get the need for a solid bridge on the rear caliper involving removal, juggling the caliper and pads to change them (brake line still attached) and torqueing the caliper mount bolts.

PP have they changed the caliper mounting bolt material such that they do not recommend changing the bolts when you re-mount the caliper as they do on the 986/987 platform?

Newton's 3rd Law of Motion states: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

As the caliper's piston's are forced inwards (towards the brake rotor) during braking [action,] there is an equal and opposite force outwards (away from the brake rotor) [reaction.] This force will "pry open" the inboard and outboard sides of the caliper. The bolt in question acts as a "tie rod" to prevent the caliper from being pried apart. The sliding pin on the standard (4-piston) brake caliper does not act as a tie rod.

Kestrel
07-06-2011, 08:54 AM
From what I have read it is nothing I would want. I am not sure what the target market was for the R? I guess it's just a fun idea for some enthusiasts?

Interesting comment from someone who is enough of a "car person" to spend time on a car forum. I'm not "picking" on you by any means LUXVI, and it's definitely different strokes for different folks... but from all I've read, the Cayman R is absolutely something I would want! The car seems to be quicker and sharper all while being at least as comfortable as the Cayman S. What's not to like? Well I don't like the door pulls, and I actually like having the hood over the gauge cluster (could I add that on later from an OEM hood from an S?).

But if I had the cash, I'd be buying an R today. Thanks for the write up Gator Bite, and I look forward to reading more!

rbpeirce
07-06-2011, 09:10 AM
What to do? I think a long road trip would be nice and tell me how you do with the Sport Bucket seats. I chose the regular Sport Seats for my CR. But then I am 65 years old and may need them.

I'm 70, went with the sports buckets and love them! I used to have an NSX and had to take the seat cushion out to get enough head room for a helmet. The seating was similar but much tighter, The side bolsters weren't designed to give like they do in the Porsche.

I haven't driven it for more than about two hours straight yet, but after two hours I was still completely comfortable. In fact, I felt better than the same time spent in the so-called bucket seats in my wife's sedan.

Gator Bite
07-06-2011, 09:13 AM
I'm 70, went with the sports buckets and love them! I used to have an NSX and had to take the seat cushion out to get enough head room for a helmet. The seating was similar but much tighter, The side bolsters weren't designed to give like they do in the Porsche.

I haven't driven it for more than about two hours straight yet, but after two hours I was still completely comfortable. In fact, I felt better than the same time spent in the so-called bucket seats in my wife's sedan.

I have spent considerable time in the sport buckets and am surprised at how comfortable they are. After a good 8 to 10 hours, they do start to wear on me.

PistolPete
07-06-2011, 09:57 AM
Thanks Pistol Pete. That is a bummer to the pccbs in my view. It does look like they have put the 6 piston caliper on the cayman R.

...

PP have they changed the caliper mounting bolt material such that they do not recommend changing the bolts when you re-mount the caliper as they do on the 986/987 platform?

You're welcome! As Gator said, the removal of the front bolt is fairly simple and the pads can still be swapped without front caliper removal. Another downside to the PCCB is the lack of brake pad choices. I think Porsche has only one optional pad for PCCB's if you plan to track them. Pagid and other 3rd parties don't have pads that will go on the PCCB. Don't blame them, the market is too small.

As far as I know, the rear bolt material hasn't changed. What a lot of track rats do on the rear GT3 caliper is to install something called TimeSerts proactively to prevent stripping out the threads.

I'm only a keyboard mechanic and parrot information I've picked up over the years so I'll leave it up to the experts here to chime in if this is a reasonable solution for protecting the fragile aluminum caliper attachment points on the rear of the GT3 .

ApexL8
07-06-2011, 10:49 AM
In fact, I felt better than the same time spent in the so-called bucket seats in my wife's sedan.
After a good 8 to 10 hours, they do start to wear on me.I've done 3 long distance, +12 hour, minimal stop, stints in Sport Buckets and they're not bad, any seat will get uncomfortable eventually. I've only had one passenger who can't take them, he isn't particularly big, tall, or fat, he just happens to have a wide pelvis and the side bolsters are wedging him in from the get go. The Buckets are a real world alternative, not a torture device, but I wouldn't 'tick the box' without trying them out first.

If I had access to an R I would get a very close look at the sway bars, springs, dampers, every suspension bit really, to see if they would fit my Gen 1 S. Got access to a lift Mike?

Chuck

Jim987
07-06-2011, 12:00 PM
Any problems with the front end? ie being lowered and with deeper front lip have you encountered any problems with driveways or ramps...I am having the aerokit installed on my '10 S next week and want to be prepared. Thanks...gorgeous car by the way...the silver and blue are great together.

TraderGuy
07-06-2011, 12:11 PM
If I had access to an R I would get a very close look at the sway bars, springs, dampers, every suspension bit really, to see if they would fit my Gen 1 S. Got access to a lift Mike?

I'll offer the services of my lift if it's needed. I'm in Southbury.

Guy

In2Esses
07-06-2011, 03:07 PM
Mike, sorry you have to go through all this just for the benefit of all of us :wink:

I do think it would be very valuable though to drive the R back to back with a similarly equipped "regular" 2010/2011 CaymanS. About a month ago I had the opportunity to drive a friends new CS with PDK, sport chrono, etc., and I found that it was a totally different car than my 06. It actually reminded me more of the 07/08 911Ss I drove last summer when I almost bought a 997S cab (long story for another day); more of a "GT" feel than the rawness of my car (now, with PSS9s, the EvoRS350 package and Remus exhaust, etc. that may simply be a given).

It will also be very interesting to see how the R stacks up to modded Gen 1s at DEs and AutoXes. As previously noted, I will have dropped about $15k or so into my 06 over the last year when things are all tied up in the next month or so, which of course, is a heck of a lot cheaper than $45-$50k over and above on a trade in on an R.

In short, I think a 4 way comparison would be great if you could pull it off: "stock" Gen 1, modified Gen1, "stock / regular" Gen 2, and the R. Maybe even try to get a Boxter Spyder in there for good measure too.

Regards,
David

Gator Bite
07-06-2011, 07:01 PM
I've done 3 long distance, +12 hour, minimal stop, stints in Sport Buckets and they're not bad, any seat will get uncomfortable eventually. I've only had one passenger who can't take them, he isn't particularly big, tall, or fat, he just happens to have a wide pelvis and the side bolsters are wedging him in from the get go. The Buckets are a real world alternative, not a torture device, but I wouldn't 'tick the box' without trying them out first.

If I had access to an R I would get a very close look at the sway bars, springs, dampers, every suspension bit really, to see if they would fit my Gen 1 S. Got access to a lift Mike?

Chuck

I had to give the car back today. Man, that week went by fast.... No need to get under the car. The suspension bits will fit onto a Gen I or Gen II Cayman.

Any problems with the front end? ie being lowered and with deeper front lip have you encountered any problems with driveways or ramps...I am having the aerokit installed on my '10 S next week and want to be prepared. Thanks...gorgeous car by the way...the silver and blue are great together.

In over 1,300 real world miles, I didn't scrape the front even one time. I was very cautious, and did notice that the front aero foils will go over a standard curb without hitting too.

I did a lot of driving in that car. Now it's time to bring all of the experience together for you. That may take a little time.

Mike

Gator Bite
07-07-2011, 09:53 AM
Over the last couple of days, I dropped my G-Timer into the Cayman R to take some measurements. For those that don't know what a G-Timer is, it's a small windshield mounted device that uses accelerometers to time your car from 0-60 or for 1/4 mile runs. It also measures acceleration, braking and turning G-Forces. It thought it would be cool to compare this to other Caymans.

Here's what I came up with:

Testing conditions, Sunny, 85 degrees F, relative humidity 42%, near sea level

Transmission Gear2012 Cayman R2007 Cayman S2007 Cayman1st Gear0.66 G0.64 G0.50 G2nd Gear0.46 G0.43 G0.34 G3rd Gear0.34 G0.33 G0.24 G4th Gear0.26 G0.25 GN.A.

As you can see, the acceleration G-Forces aren't all that different from my Cayman S. I did record those numbers (for my S) some time ago. I'll record them again for consistency. Since I had the G-Timer in there, I figured I'd better do a 0-60 run to see what I could come up with. I was able to find a nice flat on ramp that would put me onto the highway with lots of visibility both behind and in front of me. This was perfect because I could wait for a nice opening, set the G-Timer and activate the Launch Control for the last time. That's exactly what I did, and as I told you before, using Launch Control is like being shot out of a canon. It's about as much fun as you can have without breaking the law.

Before I give you the results, let me tell you that I've used the G-Timer many times on many cars and like Car & Driver (they tested these some time ago), I've found it to be pretty darn accurate. For example, in my Gen I Cayman S 6 speed, I've been able to pretty consistently deliver 0-60 times in the low 5 second range. My last run in my Cayman S delivered a 5.05 second result. This was with a reasonably gentle engagement of the clutch followed by a fast run through the gears. I did not drop the clutch or roast the tires. I accept that as pretty accurate, because most magazines report that the Gen I Cayman S will sprint to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds, and you know their just beating the snot out of those cars.

So, what did the 2012 Cayman R with PDK and Launch Control do? Click 'Show' to see the results.

4.28 seconds....!!!!

Now that's drastically different than my Gen I Cayman S.

2012 Cayman R2007 Cayman S2007 Cayman0-60 mph4.28 seconds5.05 seconds5.80 seconds

You know, if I were not in the car, I probably wouldn't believe it. But having sat in the driver seat and having felt the amazing launch I am sure the G-Timer pulled an accurate result. The G-Timer's results are not out of line with Porsche's claimed 4.4 seconds, considering that Porsche has always been historically conservative with their claims.

I probably should have done 2 or 3 more runs and averaged them out like I did with the G pulls, but I simply am not comfortable using the Launch Control over and over again, nor is it easy to find a safe environment to do so.

ApexL8
07-07-2011, 10:25 AM
I had to give the car back today. Man, that week went by fast.... No need to get under the car. The suspension bits will fit onto a Gen I or Gen II Cayman.I guess I took too long thinking up a question! But if the stuff fits no need to ask anyway :).

Chuck

Speedy
07-07-2011, 12:25 PM
4.28 seconds. Wow. Yeah, it's only a number and how often do you really do stuff like that, but WOW that's fast! :smile:

cman21
07-07-2011, 01:36 PM
Chuck,

I'm working on the parts list with a porsche guy I know as soon as I have the completed compairison to the gen 1 car I'll post it. It looks like on the sway bars only the rear sway bar is different due to the limted slip diff.

Craig

I guess I took too long thinking up a question! But if the stuff fits no need to ask anyway :).

Chuck

Jim987
07-07-2011, 03:48 PM
In over 1,300 real world miles, I didn't scrape the front even one time. I was very cautious, and did notice that the front aero foils will go over a standard curb without hitting too.

Mike

That is good news, Thanks!

Gator Bite
07-08-2011, 09:27 AM
OK, I drove my 07 Cayman S yesterday for the first time in a while. Just to doument my feelings, because they may be helpful to me in writing this up, I immediately noticed:

My speedART sounds funny compared to the PSE on the R (I like the PSE better)
I love driving stick again. Ahhh.... I'm back home.
Oh man.... The Air Conditioning is sooooo nice.... Ahhhhhhh....... And I forgot what a great job the ACC does. You don't have to touch it at all.
My sport seats feel so ordinary, but they sure are easy to get in and out of. Hmmm..... I am suddenly second guessing my desire to have the sport buckets. I'll have to really weigh that descision.
Why does my steering feel heavier....? Hmmmm......
My car feels nose heavy on the road. Can it be the bin of junk I have up front? I'll have to remove it and drive it again.
My CS doesn't turn in like the R. The R is much more reactionary to small steering inputs.
Some clown pulled out onto the road in front of me, while I was doing 45, then proceeded to stop to turn into a driveway on the right. I can't believe how hard I had to squeeze my brakes. Man, do I miss the PCCBs. The CS brakes work fine, but they feel like junk in comparison to the PCCBs.
My PASM feels soft and a little floaty after a week in the R. Not terrible, just less connected. I find myself activating Sport mode just to get that connected feel back, but the sport mode isn't as comfortable as the R's suspension. There is that bounce I was talking about.
My engine feels great, but sluggish and heavy at low RPM. The Gen II throttle response is so crisp and sharp thoughout the range.
Guards Red looks better than Dark Blue Metalic.....
Driving home when I was tired, the PASM normal mode was really nice to have. It smoothed the road into silk.
My BOSE radio sounds a lot better than the Sound Package Plus. Wow... Listen to those highs.... The SPP had lousy highs.
These are just notes. If I think of more, I'll add them in.

Blitzkrieg
07-08-2011, 04:52 PM
Thanks for writing up your experiences Mike, by far one of the more detailed accounts of the 'R' that you can find anywhere, especially the fact that it is being compared against other Caymans and not competitor cars.

Out of everything in this thread, the one thing that stood out the most was the difference of PCCB. I had (wrongfully) assumed that those brakes were just about reducing fade and increasing longevity, I was unaware that they are actually more powerful as well. On the option list I had discounted them as an overpriced way to change caliper color.

The other thing that stood out was PDK. I've driven a PDK once and was impressed, but hearing your reaction when returning to manual has me wondering if the performance is really worth losing that profound sense of satisfaction when managing to string together a series of perfect up/down shifts. I mean I didn't buy the Cayman because it was the fastest car in the price range, I bought it because it was the most fun to drive. Also on that note, I'd be curious to see 6MT 'R' times vs a Cayman S. I expect the difference from 0-60 wouldn't be so profound.

GoFast914
07-08-2011, 04:54 PM
Glad you have enjoyed it Mike... just wait till we get a turbo strapped on :)

--Casey

sward2
07-10-2011, 06:56 PM
As Gen 1 CS street driver I am most fascinated with the overdrive/ 7th gear. Their is no reason to turn 2900+ rpms crusing on an interstate when your engine has that much torque. I would predict 35 mpg @ 70 MPH all day long if the CS motor was turning 2200 rpm. That might also reduce engine wear. I wish we could get a 7 speed tranny for our CS.

manny prego
07-13-2011, 12:11 PM
I went with the S instead of the R since my car would see more street than track, Miami roads aren't the best and traffic is a bear, so I was looking for a bit more "comfort", I at times wonder if I chose the right car, granted AC is a must down here unless one likes to drive inside a sauna. I guess once you start adding options such as AC, radio, etc., the weight margin narrows a bit....you still have the wonderful suspension that according to the experts outshines the S's set up. Still I think you can't go wrong with any Cayman, no matter if there's a letter or not after the name.

desertdrew
07-26-2011, 10:35 PM
Thanks Ed. Perfect...!!




I think the target is the track minded Cayman buyer, or the guy that just wants the most feedback he can get in a street Cayman. Think about it. If you're really into the track, you can buy a Cayman S and then spend $8,000 on seats and installation, then another $6,000 on a descent suspension setup with sway bars. Then another $4,000 on some light weight racing wheels and $2,000 on a free flow exhaust system for a grand total of $20,000 spent making it more track focused. Or, you could spend $4,800 and get an R that comes with all of that stuff and more.

GB,
This answer addresses my question but I have to say your costs don't equate wtih my experience. In doing or planning everythign you state above I have actually spent half your total, albeit with some of my own labor.

Gator Bite
07-27-2011, 02:39 AM
Correct. Because a Cayman R doesn't require assembly, I based my guestimates on mods including installation labor.

I also based my guestimates on the price of genuine Porsche parts or high quality equivalents. For example, you can get aftermarket seats that do not have side impact airbags for much less, but the fit, finish and safety of them would be lower than that offered on the Cayman R seats.

Rbama
02-04-2014, 04:30 PM
Having owned Porsches since 1972 and having had a 2010 Cayman S with 5mm spacers from the factory and trading the car for a Cayman R, I can tell you they are distinctly different cars.

The Cayman S is a great car and tons of fun. However, the Cayman R is a street legal race car, it only needs fifty more horses. The R however is not uncomfortable to drive which makes it even more fun. My car is a five speed which is flawless but I am getting old enough and Porsche is getting good enough that the PKD looks very attractive.

I do not find the 2014 Cayman very attractive and felt Porches should have continued with the refinement they started with the Cayman R. When you look at this car it has Porsche history written all over it.

Ed Merry
02-04-2014, 08:42 PM
I went back and read through the entire thread. Wow, we had a good conversation going. Remembered some good stuff.


Now with 38.5K miles on my CR with PDK, I am still smitten by this car. I drove some back roads west of Williamsburg, VA last Saturday after more than a week of slush and snow. Amazing car. Had to be very careful with icy spots in places..


We are so very blessed to have cars like these. And of course, the Blue Streak was quite dirty when I got back home so I bucket washed her Sunday afternoon, it got up to the 60s here.


4.28 second for 0-60 MPH. Wow. Thanks for that data. The G-meter is important. A friend and I tried to do it with a stopwatch and our human reflexes were just too slow. Our best effort was 4.9 but by then we'd passed 65 MPH. Not bad with two old fat guys in the car.


Amazing car. Come on Spring. So far we have 26 cars signed up for a 15 Feb Fun Run. Drive safe. Ed

Rbama
02-13-2014, 01:27 PM
Mike,

My question causes the question to delta into a general value equation. Since I am one of those guys looking to get "more" of everything at the best value, my question is:

Does the incremental cost of the R present a great value for the improved performance versus buying a used version and doing the mods to get the same or more horses, torque, handling?

Living in AZ and it being 119 today, I can tell you an "everyday" car without AC is not a choice so AC is an add or this is a track only car.

So lets take a used S with PDK, install new aftermarket: exhaust, intake, improved lower end on the motor (what Greg is doing and I will be doing proactively shortly), intake, PSS9 or other suspension, sway bars, camber plates and a bigger brake kit and two racing seats and belts- so you are looking at 15-20k if you do most of your own work and get opportunistic buys. A quick scan shows 2009 S at $50k or less. Then you strip it down to 2900 or so pounds from 3200. That will be one bad *** racer that you could drive everyday if you wanted to (with AC in my case).

So, with that criteria, is it a good value or not? I realize it is only your opinion and based upon the bias' you have openly expressed in the past (not criticizing) that if it is a close call you'll go with the R, BUT I really value your opinion, advice and acumen concerning the car and the marque. So what be It?


Unless you are a very good Porsche engineer, I would not attempt to make an S be the equivalent of an R. This is an incredible machine that Porsche engineering put some thought into. Porsche waited 35 years to produce another "R" designated car. You can bet this was done after much discussion and the merit of the car.

mlpor
02-13-2014, 09:24 PM
Unless you are a very good Porsche engineer, I would not attempt to make an S be the equivalent of an R. This is an incredible machine that Porsche engineering put some thought into. Porsche waited 35 years to produce another "R" designated car. You can bet this was done after much discussion and the merit of the car.


Bull Malarkey! Other than the 10 to maybe 20 kilos "R" devotes think they have, at least 1/2 and my guess would be more than 80% in the US market forego bt having the AC and radio put back in, there was nothing magical about the 987 "R" configuration. @$1,600 + labor for the "R" suspension, and "Basta" - JECGPM (Just End of Cycle Great Porsche Marketing), of course, only IMO.

kendapau
02-13-2014, 11:01 PM
I must be a heretic, but for the current price of a nice R I would rather go with a 2007 911 Turbo, dare I say with sport chrono plus and a tip. Unbelievable launch control system.

But I'd keep my 06 CS

the_vetman
02-13-2014, 11:15 PM
Bull Malarkey! Other than the 10 to maybe 20 kilos "R" devotes think they have, at least 1/2 and my guess would be more than 80% in the US market forego bt having the AC and radio put back in, there was nothing magical about the 987 "R" configuration. @$1,600 + labor for the "R" suspension, and "Basta" - JECGPM (Just End of Cycle Great Porsche Marketing), of course, only IMO.

There's actually an extensive list of differences between 987.2 CS and CR, though not all are crucial. Do a search elsewhere on the list of differences. Aluminum doors, Spyder wheels (lightest wheels Porsche made at the time and which are beautiful), bigger wing, front splitters, and stock/free GT2 sport bucket seats are some of the main differences. And, yes, there was an option for radio, AC, cup holder, etc., delete though most were optioned back in. Also console paint (body color), different shifter, instrument cluster hood (lack of), LEDs, stripes, etc., etc.

In other words, it's not just the suspension difference. Incredible value compared to someone retrofitting all these parts to an S, IMO.

rubber_ducky
02-14-2014, 07:28 AM
There's actually an extensive list of differences between 987.2 CS and CR, though not all are crucial. Do a search elsewhere on the list of differences. Aluminum doors, Spyder wheels (lightest wheels Porsche made at the time and which are beautiful), bigger wing, front splitters, and stock/free GT2 sport bucket seats are some of the main differences. And, yes, there was an option for radio, AC, cup holder, etc., delete though most were optioned back in. Also console paint (body color), different shifter, instrument cluster hood (lack of), LEDs, stripes, etc., etc.

In other words, it's not just the suspension difference. Incredible value compared to someone retrofitting all these parts to an S, IMO.

Vetman speaks the truth. Take it from a guy (yet to be bitten by the DE bug) who waited until the R was announced to place his order for an S. The aero kit and seats didn't mean anything to me at the time.

I've since retrofit the sport buckets, an R PSE and the aero kit. At some point I had an R rear anti-roll bar on the car too, but that had since been replaced with an aftermarket unit. I've also contemplated R Springs on my PASM shocks.

All that being said, the R formula isn't some elusive thing that can't be replicated. The aluminum doors are expensive, but they turn up. The wheels were available on non-R cars. The black trimmed headlights can be cloned with vinyl.

In any case, you can't go wrong with this car in any trim.

mlpor
02-14-2014, 09:53 AM
I don't disagree with Vet_man about the "List" or that the packaging, for a new car purchase, may have represented a value to some buyers. I also admit I wasn't thinking about the value of the "R" wheels in my response. But that said I'd still come down on the +/-20 kilos Bull Mullarky (? sp) side of things.

FWIW, I went through some of those calculations in December of 2011 when I was looking to dispose of an R8. One of the choices I had was between a used 2011 PCNA "R" which had been in Porsche North America's corporate fleet for about 9 months as I recall and had accumulated something like 5 - 6,000 miles, and a one owner, very clean 2010 Cayman S with @9,000 miles. Both were PDK cars, the R obviously with the R suspension and wheels; the 2010 S optioned with both PASM and the OEM factory LSD. The 2010 could (& was) be CPO'd, so in effect the 2010 car's warranty could be extend well past that of the one Model Year newer, 2011 comparable "R"

The price differential between the two was @ $18,000. I already had a set or two of very light track wheels that'd fit either car, so the R's 19" light wheels weren't of that much importance to me - FWIW, the 2010 came with 19" Turbo II (I think that's the name for the wheels)

To me, the only key difference I saw from an HPDE perspective was PASM vs. R sport suspension - and that wasn't worth anywhere close to $18k when the parts to put one, an R suspension, on the car could be had from Suncoast for something like $1,600, and I also had the option of putting on at least as good, if not "better" solution in the form of Bilstein's fully adjustable coilover Damptronics system by simply swapping the Damptronic parts off a 2006 987 "S" I had to the 2010.

The R is a great package, and a very nice car - I personally think in my book it's more of a marketing program than a true, substantial performance step up from a "regular" 987.2 "S" to justify the pricing differential that I was seeing between an "R" package and the rest of the Cayman alternatives. If you wanted to, as I recall you could order a regular S with the Spyder wheels along with the factory (in some folks mind, very suspect) OEM LSD. You could also get a "regular" S, and put a Guard or G-Box LSD in the car without having to go through the heart break of replacing the mandatory factory LSD that came as a no cost standard equipment part in the R.

Anyway, my 2 cents. For me, and my uses there wasn't enough value in the "R" add ons & deletes. But then I felt the same way about the Porsche Limited Edition Black Cayman "Design Edition 1"

ACD
02-21-2014, 09:51 PM
With values all over the map regarding used gen.2 S's, R's and Spyders, partially due to the scarcity of '09-'12 Caymans in general, it really comes down to the specific
colors/options/package/age/mi. preferences of what a buyer is looking for. Is an R generally worth 18K more than an S? Probably not,
but then for someone who wants carbon buckets or stripped A/C, stripped entertainment, aluminum doors, suspension, wheels etc., it could add up quickly.
The R/Spyder buckets, wheels, doors etc. are fairly pricey on the used market, not to mention the labor to start changing the configuration.
My stripped R weighed in at 106lb. lighter than my stripped S (both with steel brakes) and has ~9K more BB value than a '12 S and ~13K more than a '10 S (low mi)
When you factor in the value of the carbon buckets and suspension alone, their values are fairly close for similar years/mi. Regarding the LSD (both my cars had them),
and trying to say this as politically correct as possible, sometimes the source of information on the internet can be traced back to someone with a vested interest in the outcome. Both my LSD's were able to continue putting power down to the inside wheel after repeated track days without signs of failing.
The R definitely has a more raw feeling than either the gen.2 S or the 981 S and imho has it's place (along with the Spyder) for those who want a more direct feeling, modern sports car. Only way to tell for those possibly interested is drive them all while seeing and feeling the various configurations/values in person.
To answer the original question from 2011, strip it like a modern hardtop 914/6 might be imagined today.